DAY 21 | LIVE UPDATES: Ian Pawlowski, Lori Daybell's nephew-in-law, takes the stand in murder trial - East Idaho News
DAY 21

DAY 21 | LIVE UPDATES: Ian Pawlowski, Lori Daybell’s nephew-in-law, takes the stand in murder trial

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4 p.m. Sketches from today:

05 03 2023 03 witness Detective Vincent Kaaiakamanu 2 scaled

05 03 2023 04 witness Detective Vincent Kaaiakamanu

05 03 2023 02 Lori during Barratarrio testimony 1

05 03 2023 01 witness Audrey Barratarrio 1

3:21 p.m. Boyce says the defense intends to use the recordings and they need to be prepared. Court is dismissed for the day. Join me tonight at 7:30 p.m. on ‘Courtroom Insider’ for a breakdown of all the major developments. Find it on my Facebook page and the YouTube channel.

3:17 p.m. Thomas says his cross-examination was focused on the recordings Ian did for law enforcement and because they weren’t played, he wants them retrieved so he can hear them. Blake asks for a sidebar.

3:15 p.m. Ian says Melani looked to Chad and Lori as mother and father figures. Melani was open to religious beliefs and told Ian, “This is what they’re saying. What do you think?” Ian says Melani was “absolutely” closer to Lori over Chad. Blake has no further questions. John Thomas will be doing cross-examination.

3:14 p.m. Blake: “In those recordings, did Chad or Lori ever confess to a crime?” Ian says no. The recordings contain the religious beliefs Chad and Lori had, according to Ian. Lori and Chad told Ian to cooperate as little as possible with law enforcement. “There was an arrogant, flippant attitude toward law enforcement.” Chad was pushing them to get out of town. “Chad had a more serious tone, Lori had a lighthearted attitude toward cooperating with law enforcement.”

3:13 p.m. Ian was worried for his safety, the safety of his children and his ex-wife’s safety. On Dec. 5, less than a week after he married Melani, Ian went to Rexburg police. “They asked me to listen and observe and report back. They also asked me to make recordings for them.”

3:12 p.m. Ian: “The point where it really turned for me was the morning after I married Melani. Melani dumped everything on me and shared everything. We were staying at the Bellagio in Las Vegas and my two children were with me. The next morning I got up and my daughter was gone. She was gone for about 15 minutes. She was nowhere. Finally, I hear some giggling from behind the curtain. After hearing everything I had from the night before, that was terrifying. At that point I decided I wasn’t going to give this a chance, I’m not going to mess with it.”

3:11 p.m. Lori told Ian that Det. Hermosillo and Det. Hope of Rexburg Police were zombies and dark.

3:09 p.m. Ian says after a few days, he was not on board with what Lori was saying. He had a problem with the rankings of people being light and dark and who was good versus evil. The first time Ian heard about the light and dark system was from Melani, who had heard it from Chad. Lori then referred to it in conversations but never directly explained, Ian says.

3:08 p.m. Ian says Lori never mentioned JJ or Tylee. Ian says he’s LDS and a large part of his belief is faith in revelation and the church is a living thing. “You have to maintain an open mind when new things come. If I was going to learn something new it would either be through one of the Lord’s servants or I would receive the revelation directly.” Ian says at that point in his life, he had been through a rough divorce and was trying to rebuild himself. He was open to hearing other teachings.

3:06 p.m. After Ian returned to Rexburg following Thanksgiving 2019, Chad and Lori were gone. “When you met her, did you ever see JJ Vallow? Tylee Ryan?” Ian says no. Lori never said anything about where the kids were. Ian says he saw backpacks and luggage in Lori’s apartment that looked like they were for kids.

3:05 p.m. Ian says Melani was present for all the conversations he had with Lori. Lori brought up castings. Whenever Chad was present, Ian says Lori did most of the talking and Chad acted as a support to what Lori was saying. Blake asks about multiple probations and creations. Ian doesn’t recall anything specifically about that from her.

3:04 p.m. Ian spoke with Lori less than a dozen times. Even fewer interactions with Chad. “At some point in those conversations, did Lori talk to you about her purported beliefs?” Blake asks, specifying religious beliefs. Ian: “She discussed beliefs about possession, about locking Satan away – those are the two that stand out the most.”

3:02 p.m. Ian met Chad the first time he met Lori at the apartment next to Melani’s in Rexburg. There was not much discussion the first time they met. Ian said Lori and Melani had a close, supportive relationship. “Was it so close that you went to Lori and Chad first before asking Melani to marry you?” Ian says yes.

3:01 p.m. Ian says he met Lori briefly right after he started to date Melani between Nov. 20-25, 2019. Melani is Lori’s niece. Ian traveled to Arizona for Thanksgiving in 2019.

3 p.m. Jurors are in their seat. Lindsey Blake will question Ian.

2:56 p.m. Blake asks Ian to clarify again that he has not read or watched anything about the trial. He says he has not. Boyce determined Ian has not violated the exclusionary rule so he is allowed to testify. The jurors will be brought in.

2:55 p.m. Archibald has nothing further. Blake asks for a moment before she questions Ian.

2:54 p.m. Archibald: “You’re claiming you don’t know anything about this case because you haven’t listened to anything since it started five weeks ago,” Ian: “Correct.”

2:53 p.m. Archibald asks why Ian brought an attorney with him. Ian says this is a complicated matter and he wanted one here with him. The attorney also represented Zumela Pastenes. Ian says his attorney has not told him one thing about Zulema’s testimony. Ian says he didn’t ask and Smith never told him.

2:51 p.m. Archibald asks if Ian was in the same meeting when Melani met with an FBI agent and Lindsey Blake. Ian says no. Ian says he and Melani arrived in Idaho on Monday from Arizona. Ian says he and Melani have talked about the case. “Melani made a statement to the statement and officer ‘the nail is already in Lori’s coffin,'” Archibald says – asking if Ian overheard Melani says hi. Ian says he did not hear it and they have never said anything like this to each other.

2:50 p.m. Ian says his wife has not listened to any witness testimony but after her ex-husband Brandon Beaudreax testified, Melani looked up some headlines. Ian says he has seen headlines but has not read or watched anything. Archibald now questioning Ian.

2:47 p.m. Back in the courtroom. Boyce is on the bench and jurors will not be brought in until it can be determined if Ian Pawlowski violated the exclusionary rule. All witnesses were told not to listen to any witness testimony or read/watch the trial. Pawlowski is here with his attorney Garrett Smith from Arizona.

2:21 p.m. I interviewed Melani and Ian Pawlowski via Zoom in May 2020. We broke it up into three parts. You can check out the interview here:

2:15 p.m. Blake says Ian has not violated the exclusionary rule and you can’t dismiss him just because his wife may have violated the exclusionary rule. Boyce is having Ian brought in for questioning to see if he violated the rule. Blake says the state may call Melani P. but they ask Boyce to take that up as a separate issue. We are now taking a break until 2:40 p.m.

2:13 p.m. The other issue Boyce needs to address is the exclusionary rule. Archibald says Melani Pawlowski listened to testimony and read stories about the trial. “We believe that Ian Pawlowski has violated the rule because he’s talked to his wife. His wife Melani has admitted she violated the exclusionary rule. We would ask the court to conduct an inquiry and if they violated the rule, they be excluded.”

2:11 p.m. Boyce says the first thing he needs to address is an Idaho rule that says parties must stipulate to allowing in large items or guns versus photos of the items. Both defense and prosecutors agree.

2:09 p.m. Boyce says he is going to take up a motion outside of the presence of the jury. They are sent out of the courtroom for a brief recess.

2:05 p.m. Blake has no further questions. Boyce asks for a sidebar. White noise is played.

2:05 p.m. Blake: “When you conduct an investigation, do you go where the evidence leads you?” He responds, “Yes.” He says he was not able to question Tammy Daybell about the incident because she was killed 9-10 days later.

2:03 p.m. Blake asks Kaaiakamanu if he can tell if the gun was threaded for a silencer or suppressor. Kaaiakamanu says it was threaded for a suppressor. That would change the sound when fired.

2:02 p.m. Blake: “Do you get a lot of reports of masked gunmen in the area?” Kaaiakamanu says no. At the time of the shooting, there was a blinking yellow light at the intersection but no other light in the area, he says.

2 p.m. Blake asks Kaaiakamanu if a bipolar teenager or the husband of a dog thief seemed like plausible suspects in the gun incident. The detective says no.

1:59 p.m. Blake asks about Alex’s Jeep and when the request was made to Fremont County to help look for the vehicle. Kaaiakamanu says on the morning Tammy died, Fremont County did not have all the information about all the other investigations into JJ, Tylee and Charles.

1:56 p.m. Blake has some follow up questions. She asks why no detectives responded to Tammy’s house on the morning she died. Kaaiakamanu said he called the coroner and the coroner said she had already spoken to Mattingly. Kaaiakamanu also spoke with the deputy and everyone said nothing was out of the ordinary.

1:55 p.m. Thomas asks Kaaiakamanu to review photos of the guns. Baffles were on the guns. A baffle enables the user of the gun to quiet down the sound of the gunshot. Thomas has no further questions.

1:52 p.m. Kaaiakamanu repeats that a device registered to homerjmaximus was at the church the night Tammy died. “It was showing Wifi hits off the back side of the church.”

1:51 p.m. Thomas following up on the geofence warrant Kaaiakamanu had served. It was for any activity 150 meters in all directions from the center of the house.

1:49 p.m. Thomas asks Kaaiakamanu if he interviewed or tried to find people who may have seen Alex at the gun range. Kaaiakamanu says he didn’t speak with anyone.

1:45 p.m. The image showing Alex’s Google searches on Oct. 10 is back on the screen. Alex performed searches for “trannys” and pornography – along with searches for firearms, Kaaiakamanu says.

1:43 p.m. Thomas says if someone wants to target practice, you might go online to look up the range the gun can fire. Kaaiakamanu says that’s correct.

1:41 p.m. Thomas asks Kaaiakamanu about gun laws and whether you have to register a serial number when firearms are purchased. He asks the detective if it would be out of the ordinary for someone who owned one of these guns to Google how far it shoots, etc.

1:39 p.m. Thomas is done with the email exhibit and asks to see the Powerpoint presentation.

1:37 p.m. Thomas says, “Of all the people mentioned, you didn’t follow up or speak with any of the people suspected of this?” Kaaiakamanu says that’s correct – he never spoke with the autistic teenager or the husband of the woman who tried to steal the dog.

1:35 p.m. Thomas asks Kaaiakamanu to read the portion of the email where Tammy talks about hitting the person with her clogging shoes. She ran inside to get Garth and Chad but the guy was gone. Tammy says they thought the suspect was “a bipolar teenager who lives down the street and walks a lot.” Kaaiakamanu says police spoke with several people in the area about the “bipolar teenager” and found out he had autism. He lived a lot further away from the Daybells than what would have been walking distance.

1:33 p.m. Kaaiakamanu says a warrant was later issued for Daybell’s house. Deputies went out with metal detectors to try and locate casings. They did not find anything.

1:32 p.m. Kaaiakamanu says in Alex Cox’s belongings there was some reloading equipment but no subsonic bullets or casings.

1:31 p.m. Thomas asks Kaaiakamanu is he has fired a Grendel 6.5. He asks if there is a whooshing sound when AR-15 guns are fired. “It wouldn’t be a whooshing sound but if there is a suppressor on it, it would be very quiet.”

1:30 p.m. Thomas has Kaaiakamanu read the part of the email where Tammy explains what happened the night the gunman entered her driveway. Kaaiakamanus says he never had a chance to talk with Tammy by the time he got this case.

1:27 p.m. On the last page of the email, Thomas points out a paragraph that starts with “his theory.” Kaaiakamanu says that’s referring to a neighbor and that neighbor has a theory that the “crazy dog” lady had her husband come back to steal the dog again. Tammy says the theory is she spooked the man and he took off. Kaaiakamanu says he became aware of the situation but did not follow up with the lady who stole the dog.

1:24 p.m. The email is three pages long. The first page doesn’t have anything to do with the investigation, Thomas says. Kaaiakamanu says the first page is a lot of discussion about church stuff. On the second page, Tammy talks about her neighbor’s dog getting stolen. The neighbor chased the person who stole the dog, confronted the thief, got the dog and then went into labor.

1:22 p.m. Thomas asks about the email Tammy sent to her son Mark while he was on his mission. Thomas asks for it to be shown on the big screen.

1:21 p.m. Lori is taking notes and talking with Jim Archibald while Thomas conducts cross-examination.

1:20 p.m. “At the time Fremont County got involved, we were asked to locate a Jeep with a plate out of Texas. That Jeep belonged to Tylee Ryan and she had gone missing. That’s how we got involved,” Kaaiakamanu says.

1:18 p.m. Thomas asks Kaaiakamanu if he made the call that there would not be any follow-up investigation on the day Tammy died. Kaaiakamanu says he didn’t make the call. He believes Det. Mattingly spoke with Lt. Powell about the situation. A few weeks later, the sheriff’s office began investigating.

1:17 p.m. Thomas goes back and reviews the events from the morning Tammy Daybell died.

1:16 p.m. Thomas asks Kaaiakamanu about his professional background – when he became a detective, when he went to training, etc.

1:13 p.m. Kaaiakamanu says in his experience, a paintball gun can resemble an AR-15. Blake has no further questions. The gun is placed back on the table in front of the jury. Thomas will conduct cross-examination.

1:12 p.m. Blake asks the gun be held up so the jury can see it. A deputy comes forward and pulls the AR-15 out of the box. Kaaiakamanu points out where the scope is and Blake asks him to point out where a hopper could be on a paintball gun. Thomas walks over to observe the demonstration.

1:10 p.m. Blake asks Kaaiakamanu to step down and approach the gun. He is given a handheld mic so everyone can hear what he says. The gun is placed directly in front of the jury. Kaaiakamanu says the gun has a large scope that could be used as a hopper – similar to a hopper on a paintball gun.

1:08 p.m. Blake asks to admit the AR-15 into evidence.

1:06 p.m. Two bailiffs walk in with an AR-15 in a long box. There are two other items. Blake asks if Kaaiakamanu can leave the stand to look over the items. He steps down from the witness stand and identifies the firearm. “That firearm is the Alexander Arms Grendel 6.5 with a vortex scope on it.” Kaaiakamanu says there are two solvent traps that “were drilled in to make homemade suppressors.”

1:04 p.m. Kaaiakamanu is on the stand and Blake requests that a firearm seized from Alex’s house be brought into the courtroom. “We will make sure all firearms are unloaded and steps have been taken to render them inoperable,” Boyce says to the jury.

1:02 p.m. I have seen Garrett Smith and Josh Garner in the courtroom today. They are both attorneys for Melani Pawlowski. Smith represented her in Arizona, Garner represented her during grand jury proceedings in Idaho.

1:01 p.m. Back in the courtroom. Boyce is on the bench and jurors are being brought in.

1 p.m. Here are sketches from this morning.

05 03 2023 01 witness Audrey Barratarrio

05 03 2023 02 Lori during Barratarrio testimony

05 03 2023 03 witness Detective Vincent Kaaiakamanu

11:53 a.m. Kaaiakamanu says Chad Daybell was the beneficiary of all of Tammy’s life insurance policies. All of the policies paid out. Chad currently faces two counts of insurance fraud in Fremont County. Blake suggests breaking for lunch and moving forward after lunch. We will be back around 12:50 p.m.

11:52 a.m. None of the geofence warrants showed Chad Daybell’s activities. Chad had told many people he was home the night Tammy died but none of his devices showed up in the area during the time frame.

11:50 a.m. On another warrant, there was a hit on a device associated to Alex Cox at the LDS Salem church from 10:07 p.m. – 10:45 p.m. on Oct. 18, 2019. At 11:53 p.m., the device for homerjmaximus was later picked up on Wifi seven minutes away from the Salem church.

11:49 a.m. Kaaiakamanu learned the identification numbers did not have anything to do with his investigation.

11:47 a.m. Google responded to the warrant with four identification numbers. Kaaiakamanu served another warrant to learn who the identification numbers were associated to.

11:45 a.m. Kaaiakamanu says he requested a Google geofence warrant for information on Oct. 18 – Oct 19 at the Daybell’s property and the LDS Church near Chad’s house.

11:43 a.m. Kaaiakamanu now testifies about the email sent from Charles to Tammy where Charles said he was aware that their spouses were cheating with each other. Charles asked to meet with Tammy to discuss it. Kaaiakamanu was never able to determine whether Tammy read the email. The email from Charles to Chad was sent on the same day. Charles told Chad he needed to stop talking to Lori and he needed to tell Tammy what was going on.

11:40 a.m. Sidebar is over. Kaaiakamanu is shown a photo of an example of a paintball gun. Blake asks to admit the photo as a demonstrative exhibit. Thomas objects and says the image is inflammatory, it’s not the gun used the night Tammy was shot at and it’s prejudicial to admit.

11:36 a.m. Kaaiakamanu describes his background with paintball guns and AR-15s. Blake asks for a brief sidebar.

11:34 a.m. Blake shows a photo on the screen. There are two firearms on the image. One of them is a 6.5 Grendel. “When Tammy Daybell called in the attempted shooting, she described the rifle as a paintball gun. After looking at all the firearms, this one stuck out because it has a larger scope on it which could be mistaken for a hopper, which Tammy described. A hopper is on a paintball gun,” Kaaiakamanu says.

11:33 a.m. Boyce says he will take the objection under advisement but will allow the photos in at this point. If the defense wants the guns brought in, they are welcome to do it during their portion of Lori’s defense. Thomas says he plans to do so.

11:32 a.m. Thomas says rather than having photos of the firearms, he wants the actual guns brought into the courtroom. He wants the jury to see the firearms.

11:31 a.m. Blake asks to admit two photos of the firearms.

11:30 a.m. Kaaiakamanu says firearms found in Lori’s garage were seized for evidence. They have been kept at the Fremont County Sheriff’s Office and are now being held as evidence in Boise.

11:28 a.m. Kaaiakamanu says Alex Cox visited the Fremont County Sportsman’s Club on Oct. 7, 8, 12, 13 and 15. The person who signed in was C QUINT. Sidenote: Alex loved Captain Quint from the movie Jaws.

11:26 a.m. On Oct. 12, 2019, there were several other Google searches performed regarding guns, firearms and ammunition. There was also a search about a Dodge Dakota. The Daybells had a 2004 Dodge Dakota and Tammy drove the Dakota. The searches were in relation to what it would take to shoot through a vehicle.

11:24 a.m. On Oct. 10, 2019, there were several searches about AR-15, using it in cold weather and how to use it. He also did a YouTube search on shooting an AR-15 at -30 degrees. Kaaiakamanu says it was 26 degrees in Fremont County on this particular day.

11:22 a.m. Kaaiakamanu says the searches were done on the homerjmaximus account registered to Alex Cox so we can’t say for 100% certainty that it was Alex but it was his account and device.

11:18 a.m. On Oct. 8, 2019, Alex searched for:

6.5 grendel drop from 100 yards to 200 yards
6.5 grendel drop from 100 yards to 300 yards

Kaaiakamanu says he believes Alex was trying to figure out where to stand to have an accurate shot at Tammy Daybell.

On Oct. 9, 2019, he searched for several different AR-15 uppers, muzzle energy of 6.5 grendel and frog togg sizing for pants.

11:16 a.m. Kaaiakamanu says some of the searches stood out to him. On Oct. 1, 2019, Alex searched for directions to Mesa, Arizona from Gallup, New Mexico. That same night, at 7:52 p.m., he searched for a specific address on Phelps Street in Gilbert, Arizona. This was where Brandon Boudreaux was living. On Oct. 2, he searched for directions on how to get to the same address at 7:17 a.m. This is the last time the address is searched.

11:15 a.m. Boyce overrules the objection and allows the Powerpoint in as a demonstrative exhibit. The first slide says ‘homerjmaximus searches.’

11:13 a.m. Thomas objects to the exhibit and says it’s improper to have the detective read from a summary. Blake says having the detective memorize the entire thing would not be possible.

11:12 a.m. Blake now asks to admit a Powerpoint exhibit with information related to the homerjmaximus account. Alex owned the account.

11:11 a.m. Tammy wrote that Chad and Garth went outside to look for the shooter but couldn’t find him. They called the police and Tammy says they believed the shooter was a “bipolar teenager” from down the street.

11:08 a.m. Blake asks Kaaiakamanu to read from the email. “Now on the same day, I was coming home from clogging. It was about 9:15 and I backed into the driveway. I was getting some items out of the back seats. We had made freezer meals at enrichment. I looked up thinking it was Dad or Garth to help me carry stuff in. Nope. It was a guy with a ski mask on with a rifle pointed at me.” Tammy says she asked the man what he was doing before realizing it was a paintball gun. The gun kept firing but nothing was coming out. Tammy said she kept asking what the guy was doing. She said she thought about hitting him with her clogging shoes. Instead she yelled “Chad” and the guy ran away. Tammy then wrote that she ran into the house to get Dad and Garth.

11:07 a.m. A copy of the email is shown on the big screen in the courtroom. It was sent from to Mark’s missionary email account on Oct. 13, 2019 at 2:38 p.m.

11:05 a.m. Boyce overrules the objection and allows the email in.

11:04 a.m. Boyce asks to have a sidebar with the attorneys. White noise is played in the courtroom.

11:01 a.m. Thomas objects to the exhibit. It was admitted earlier in the trial but has not been shown to the jury. Boyce reviews the exhibits before making a ruling.

10:58 a.m. Kaaiakamanu says he reviewed an email Tammy Daybell sent to her son Mark Daybell. Blake asks to admit a copy into evidence.

10:56 a.m. Kaaiakamanu explains how other police departments in Arizona and Idaho (and the FBI) got involved in the investigation into JJ, TYlee, Tammy and Charles.

10:55 a.m. Greenhalgh told Kaaiakamanu she had already spoken with Det. Mattingly and the coroner were on scene. Kaaiakamanu had never heard of Tammy Daybell before this. The Fremont County Sheriff’s Office began investigating the death at the end of Oct. 2019.

10:53 a.m. Kaaiakamanu says the night before Tammy Daybell died, he was assisting Idaho Falls Police with an officer-involved shooting. He got home around 4:30 a.m. on Oct. 19 and fell asleep. When he woke up, he noticed a missed call from Dep. Greenhalgh, who previously testified in the trial. He called her back.

10:51 a.m. Kaaiakamanu is over the detective division and worked as a supervisor over the patrol division. He has worked at the sheriff’s office for 18 years. He and Helena Kaaiakamanu, the dispatcher who testified earlier in the trial, are brother and sister.

10:48 a.m. Kaaiakamanu previously testified and is back on the stand.

10:48 a.m. Next witness is Fremont County Sgt. Vince Kaaiakamanu. Lindsey Blake will be questioning him.

10:47 a.m. We are back in the courtroom. Boyce is on the bench and jurors are being brought in.

10:08 a.m. Audrey says she did not ever mention this before because she was scared. Archibald forcefully pushes Audrey that this never came up in previous testimony and she stands by her claims. He has nothing further. Rawlings asks if she can ask one more question. Boyce says no. We are now headed to a morning break. Back around 10:40 a.m.

10:07 a.m. Archibald now questioning Audrey and reminds her that she promised, under oath, to tell the whole truth. Archibald said none of this testimony came up in the grand jury proceedings. “Nothing of this sort was talked about. You want the jury to believe that you just didn’t make this last crap up?” Audrey says, “I did not make it up.”

10:04 a.m. Audrey: “As soon as I turned to go upstairs, she started laughing – like if you were laughing at someone. She said, ‘You’re so naive and too trusting. You’re like a little child. You think the world is all unicorns and rainbows. You go around helping people and serving them. Well I’ve got news for you. Not everyone is a good person and not everyone can be so kind. Then she threatened to kill me. She said she would cut me up and wasn’t in the mental place to do it but would get herself in a place to do it. There would be blood and bleach and something about trash bags. She would bury me in a place nobody would ever find me.”

10 a.m. Audrey says she terminated the friendship with Lori in October 2019 after praying about it. She was in Lori’s house and Audrey told her she was going to go upstairs and pack her bags. Audrey: “I asked her the question, ‘Is there anything weird going on that I don’t know about? And she said, ‘What do you mean?’ and I said ‘I don’t know anything.’ I took her at her word because I’m a trusting person.”

9:59 a.m. Rawlings clarifies that the castings took place in Lori’s hotel rooms, Lori organized them, Lori picked the target – it was all under the direction of Lori.

9:58 a.m. Archibald has no further questions. Rawlings will now follow up on some questions. She clarifies that Chad was not with Audrey in Hawaii or Missouri.

9:57 a.m. Archibald: “And that’s what friends do. They try to help each other, right?” She says yes. He now asks why they went to the temple in Rexburg when she arrived. She did. It’s a place she can go “to serve others. It’s a place of peace.”

9:54 a.m. Archibald asks if Audrey ever thought to call the police about Charles or Tammy being in danger. She says not until she decided to dissolve the friendship. Archibald asks why she didn’t go home after she felt so comfortable on the beach in Hawaii – instead she went to Idaho. “Because I have a big heart and try to help those around me,” Audrey replies while crying.

9:52 a.m. Audrey says she, Lori and Melani were not holding hands during this particular casting. Audrey doesn’t remember where the zombie teachings came from but had never heard of them before she met Lori. Audrey says the light and dark scale came from Chad. Archibald asks Audrey what her score on the light/dark scale was. She doesn’t remember the number but she remembers she had a good score.

9:51 a.m. Archibald asks about the casting that she participated in while in Missouri. She says she wasn’t sure what was going on and didn’t want to participate in the casting so that’s why she said her own prayer asking God to help Tammy if there was something wrong.

9:48 a.m. Archibald asks about historical church sites and what Audrey means by that. She says pioneer historical sites. He asks about Adam-ondi-Ahman, Liberty Jail and the other sites Lori, Audrey and Melani visited.

9:47 a.m. Archibald asks Audrey why she moved to Missouri. She said she did after she prayed about it. Archibald asks if she believes Jesus is going to come to Missouri when he comes back to earth. “That is a teaching of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

9:45 a.m. Archibald asks if Audrey thought it was pretty cool because she had been married to Jesus. She says yes. “So you thought if Chad Daybell is telling me about my past, he can probably predict the future too?” Audrey says yes. “This gave you a feeling of ‘I’m somebody, right?'” Audrey says yes.

9:43 a.m. Chad told Audrey he had been Jesus’s brother in a prior life. Chad was married to Lori, who was named Alaina, and they walked in Palestine with Jesus. Chad told Audrey she was married to Jesus. Her name was Joanna when she was married to Jesus. “When Chad DAybell told you in a previous life your name was JKoanna and you had been married to Jesus, what did yo think of that?” Audrey: “At the time I thought it could be true because I trusted him.”

9:41 a.m. When Chad told Audrey about previous probations/lives, Audrey thought they could be something to it. Audrey says she believed Chad when he told her that he had been Methuselah. She says she believed that Chad had been an apostle of Jesus in a prior life. Chad told her he had lived “multiple” lives over millions of years. “He was regenerating as all these great people, right?” Archibald asks. “Yes.” Audrey says. Chad never said he was a “loser” in the 1700s – he was always someone great, someone cool.

9:40 a.m. “At that time I thought he was someone who could help understand,” Audrey says. Archibald says because she was following him, is it safe to say other women wanted to follow him too – like Lori, Melanie Gibb, Zulema. Audrey says, “Yes” after each name.

9:39 a.m. Archibald asks if Audrey ever thought Chad was a “weirdo” who was leading her astray. She replies at the end of their friendship – in October 2019. “So in the summer of 2019, you were still a fan, a follower of his?” She replies, “I thought he had information and was doing good things at that time.”

9:37 a.m. Audrey was uncomfortable with the casting. Archibald asks if she was worried about Charles Vallow and if she called the police. Audrey says no. Archibald asked if she had called church headquarters. She says no. “If you thought they were a bunch of weirdos, you’d never want to hang out with them again, right?” She says she wasn’t sure what to think. Archibald mentions that she kept getting back together with Lori and Melani. Audrey says she was not in communication with them but she was in communication with Chad. Audrey says she first learned about zombies from Lori. Archibald asks where Lori got that information. “Chad, right?” Audrey doesn’t remember.

9:34 a.m. Archibald asks Audrey if she’s familiar with the concept of Jesus casting out evil spirits. She is. Archibald asks if the casting out prayer circles were unusual to her. Audrey says yes, it was. Archibald asks who Audrey was praying to during the casting. “The method they were using didn’t seem like a prayer.” They were not calling upon Father in Heaven, she says. “The words that were used were aggressive things,” Audrey responds when asked if the ladies in the hotel room were calling upon the Devil.

9:33 a.m. Archibald asks Audrey if she ever met Alex Cox. She says one time in Idaho at the end of her friendship with Lori. Archibald asks if Audrey ever met Charles Vallow. She says once in November 2018. Archibald asks if he looked like he had a demon or was possessed. Audrey says not when she met him.

9:31 a.m. Archibald asks if preparing for the end of the world is going to be a happy or sad event. “The scriptures say it will be both.” Archibald: “What’s the point of preparing to be happy when Jesus comes again? What’s the point?” Audrey: “To be with God and be with your family and to live among people who want to be with God.” Archibald: “What do you need to do to prepare for a happy event?” Audrey: “Be living the commandments and living the best you can.”

9:30 a.m. Archibald asks about Chad’s books. “He said they were fictional but they were based on spiritual experiences or impressions he or other people had.” Chad spoke with Audrey about his near-death experiences.

9:28 a.m. Archibald asks Audrey how old she is. She’s 34 and single. She works remotely for a customer service job. Archibald asks about the Preparing a People seminars Audrey attended. “Preparing a people for what?” Audrey says for the end of the world. “I was interested in learning about that subject.”

9:27 a.m. Jim Archibald will cross-examine Audrey. First question: “If I take this right, you spent time with Lori and Chad in five different states. Utah, Missouri, Hawaii, Idaho and Arizona. Is that right?” Audrey says yes.

9:25 a.m. Audrey stayed at Lori’s apartment in Rexburg. Chad and Lori were there kissing and hugging. He often came back late at night to stay at the apartment. Melani stayed in one of Lori’s rooms. While in Rexburg, Audrey, Chad, Lori and Melani went to the Rexburg Temple. Rawlings has no further questions for Audrey.

9:22 a.m. Audrey said Lori often got phone calls and she would leave for a long time. Audrey would stay with Melani to keep her happy. Audrey was starting to get uncomfortable and said she was going to go home. Lori said she was going to leave. Melani said she wasn’t ready to go and didn’t want to stay alone. So Audrey stayed with her. Lori bought a ticket to go to Idaho on a Wednesday. Audrey then left with Melani on Sunday and flew with her to Idaho so Melani wouldn’t be alone. Audrey said she would pay her condolences in person to Garth because “I knew he had been very close to his mom.”

9:21 a.m. While in Hawaii, they went on bike rides and spent time at the beach. Audrey says Lori’s behavior was different. Some moments she was irritated with Melani, other times she was swinging and laughing. “At that time, she seemed agitated or snippy.”

9:20 a.m. Toward the later end of October 2019, Audrey went to Hawaii. Melani and Lori picked Audrey up. They all stayed in a hotel. Rawlings asks Audrey what she recalls about her stay in Hawaii. “It’s very uncomfortable,” Audrey says. She says Lori told Audrey Melani was going through a very hard time and Melani needed a friend. Audrey said she could be a friend. Audrey is crying. “Shortly after getting there, Lori told me Tammy had passed away. I asked her when and she said it had been about a week. I asked her how she passed away. She said in her sleep.”

9:18 a.m. Audrey: “When I heard Chad Daybell say something to the effect of why is the body still alive or something like that, I realized that they must have taken things even further. They didn’t intend for the person to be helped – they didn’t want the person to live.”

9:17 a.m. Rawlings asks Audrey if she remembers getting a text from Lori saying they had done a lot of work but it didn’t work and another one got in (speaking about zombies). Lori asks Audrey if she had any suggestions to help, it would be appreciated. Audrey didn’t know why Lori was asking her for guidance. Lori said Tammy’s spirit was in a cage or jail and it needed to be freed because “some person has overtaken her body.”

9:15 a.m. Audrey says if getting rid of dark spirits didn’t work, Lori would come up with another idea – another spirit got in, we need to try again, etc. “It just kept going and going and going.”

9:12 a.m. When Melani and Lori were in Missouri, they invited Audrey to stay in their hotel room so she didn’t have to drive home. Audrey did and that night, Lori said Tammy had a spirit in her that needed to be taken out. “I told her I did not want to help and did not want to participate. She (long pause as Audrey starts to cry) highly pressured me saying you’re supposed to be my friend, you’re supposed to help me. I reiterated I didn’t want to and she kept on.” Audrey says later in the night, she said a prayer. “I said a prayer to Heavenly Father. I don’t know what’s going on. If there is something going on with Tammy and it needs to be taken out, I ask for Thee to help her. I asked that she would be able to feel the love of God and I ended the prayer.”

9:10 a.m. Audrey says Lori told her when someone has a zombie they are possessed and “need to be taken out.” Chad had an idea that if someone was light or dark it was based on whether they were predominately good or bad. Lori told Audrey her husband was dark and later on said JJ and Tylee were dark. She also said Tammy was dark. Lori said one or two of Melani’s children were also dark.

9:09 a.m. Audrey moved to Missouri and in October 2019, Lori asked if she and her niece Melani could come to see church historical sites. “They said they had some free time and wanted to see the church sites. They had never seen them before.” Audrey met up with Melani and Lori. They went to the temple and Adam-ondi-Ahman. Lori and Melani also went to Liberty Jail.

9:07 a.m. Audrey said Chad told her that he had spoken to Tammy about his vision, plan to get re-married. Chad told Audrey he had been Methuselah and the apostle James. Chad indicated Lori and Chad had been married during the time he was James the apostle. Lori’s name was Alaina.

9:06 a.m. Audrey met JJ once and met Tammy once. Chad spoke to Audrey about Tammy and said he had a near-death experience years before when he was told by a deceased relative that Tammy would pass away before she turned 50. This was around the end of January 2019 or February 2019. Chad told Audrey he felt he would get married again. He didn’t tell Audrey for a while who he would marry but eventually said Lori.

9:04 a.m. Chad and Audrey then started to talk on the phone. She began chatting with Lori on the phone about religious things and spiritual experiences. Audrey recalls talking to Lori about her move to Rexburg. “A few times in the fall, I asked her how her daughter was doing. When I stayed in her house in November 2018, I met her daughter for a few minutes so in the fall of 2019, I asked every once in a while, ‘How’s Tylee doing?’ because she was at college. Lori said, “She doesn’t talk to me much these days.'”

9:02 a.m. Audrey didn’t say anything when it was her turn in the group. She left afterward because she did not feel comfortable. She kept in touch with Lori on the phone. Audrey shares she first met Chad at a conference in St. George. She has read three of Chad’s books. Two months after she met him at the conference in 2018, Chad reached out to her on Facebook. Audrey responded and asked him some questions about his books.

9 a.m. Audrey says she was uncomfortable with what Lori was saying. Lori first told Audrey about this on the phone a few weeks earlier and then again at the conference. “She brought up saying she wanted to work on trying to get a negative spirit out of Charles. Everyone started holding hands and I didn’t know what they were doing. I thought maybe there was going to be a group prayer or something so they all held hands so I joined hands as well thinking there would be prayer. Then she started talking and said she was going to try and get a spirit out of Charles.” Lori said things like “knives and fire and weapons.”

8:56 a.m. Audrey was living in Utah at the time of the conference. Lori stayed in a hotel. Audrey spent time with Lori, Zulema, Melanie Gibb and some other women she didn’t know. “At the end of being there, Lori brought up wanting to work on her husband at the time.” Rawlings asks what that means. “Some time close to that time when I had seen her again, she all of a sudden out of the blue brought up all of this stuff about zombies and people being possessed. I hadn’t heard of that before and had to basis for that. That’s why she brought that up because that was something she was doing herself.”

8:55 a.m. Audrey says she spoke with Lori every few weeks on the phone. “We talked about more spiritual things – not as much about things going on in personal lives.” They saw each other in person in the summer of 2019 at a spiritual-based event in Utah.

8:53 a.m. Audrey next had contact with Lori in February 2019. Chad asked Audrey to be Lori’s friend. “He asked me to be her friend and that she needed a friend. He said that he couldn’t talk to her all the time and that maybe I could be someone to uplift or be a friend. I said ok.”

8:52 a.m. Audrey stayed at Lori’s house at the end of the conference. Zulema, Chad and Melanie Gibb were also at the home. Rawlings asked Audrey if she observed Lori and Chad together. “Yes and no. I observed every once and a while they looked at each other. There was a vibe.”

8:50 a.m. Fremont County Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Tawnya Rawlings is questioning Audrey. Audrey lives in Missouri and was a friend of Lori’s. They met at a conference in November 2018.

8:49 a.m. Prosecutors call Audrey Barattiero as their next witness.

8:47 a.m. Jurors are being brought in. Larry and Kay Woodcock are in the courtroom today. Audience seats are packed and many are watching from overflow locations in the Ada County Courthouse and Madison County Courthouse in Rexburg.

8:45 a.m. Attorneys have entered the courtroom. Boyce is now on the bench.

8:30 a.m. Bailiff reminds everyone to turn off their phones and not to eat in the courtroom. All of the attorneys have left the courtroom to meet with Judge Boyce. Lori remains at her table with her back to the audience as she skims through a huge stack of papers.

8:25 a.m. Lori has entered the coutroom. She’s wearing a navy blue long-sleeved shirt with a navy polka-dot puffer-type vest. Defense attorneys and prosecutors are at their tables.

8:15 a.m. It’s day 21 of Lori Vallow Daybell’s trial and we are back in the courtroom. We ended yesterday with the defense playing a podcast Lori recorded with Melanie Gibb and others in 2018. Chad Daybell’s neighbors completed their testimonies so we expect to have a new witness on the stand first thing this morning. You can get caught up on what happened yesterday here.