LIVE UPDATES | Daybell attorney grills close friend about energy work, text messages and more on day 6 of trial - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES | Daybell attorney grills close friend about energy work, text messages and more on day 6 of trial

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Excuse the typos – these are live updates from the courtroom


3:59 p.m. Bartlett asks Boyce to address their written filing. Boyce says he can ask but he may not get them. Bartlett asks to talk to the judge and Boyce says, “I’m done with this issue and I’m done wasting time on this issue. We are in recess.” The hearing is over. Join me tonight on ‘Courtroom Insider’ and we will break it all down.

3:58 p.m. Boyce says this was a frivolous filing that cost time, effort and real loss for the attorneys and the court. Boyce is going to ask defense and prosecution to itemize time spent on this pleading and Ratliff will pay attorneys fees for both sides. Court will also itemize billing time. Boyce says he is handing down a sanction that Ratliff pay the fees.

3:57 p.m. Ratliff says he was nervous and it was late at night when he filed his motion thus all the typos and mistakes in his motion.

3:55 p.m. Boyce says there is case law that prohibits intervention in a criminal case and Boyce asks what right Ratliff has to intervene as an attorney or a citizen. Ratliff says according to Idaho law, he can intervene. Ratliff says he was hoping to have a hearing in front of Boyce before the trial started.

3:54 p.m. Ratliff says it’s semantics by filing a citizen versus an attorney. Boyce says, “No it’s absolutely not” and says it’s very difference filing as a citizen versus an attorney.

3:53 p.m. Ratliff says he was looking for immediate relief of concerns he has about the case. Boyce asks why he was doing it at 11:45 p.m. on a Friday night. “Trial is scheduled for how many years and you wanted to slow it down the day before it started?” Boyce asks. Ratliff says he filed the pleading without permission of the defendant or his counsel.

3:51 p.m. Ratliff filed the wrong case number, according to Boyce. Ratliff titled himself as the attorney for the defendant three times in his motion. Ratliff says that was an error because it was in his template. Boyce asks who he is the attorney for. Ratliff says it should have been signed “citizen.”

3:50 p.m. Boyce is back on the bench. Ratliff says he is willing to answer Boyce’s questions.

3:45 p.m. Boyce says he has questions for Michael Ratliff – NOT his attorney. Bartlett says he will consult with Ratliff briefly.

3:44 p.m. Boyce shuts Bartlett up and says he can not argue the motion as his client – an attorney – filed the motion.

3:42 p.m. Boyce says he has questions for Ratliff. Bartlett says he was told by Boyce’s clerk two days ago that he could represent his client and Boyce is changing his mind.

3:41 p.m. Boyce explains Idaho Rule 11 allows the court to conduct an inquiry on its own initiative and Boyce says he has questions for Ratliff. “You are an attorney who filed something asking me to stop this trial when I don’t think you have any legal standing to do that,” Boyce says. Boyce says Ratliff himself must answers questions, not his attorneys.

3:40 p.m. We are streaming this hearing here:

3:38 p.m. Boyce says Mr. Ratliff must explain how his pleading complies with Idaho law rule 11. Boyce is clearly irritated.

3:37 p.m. Boyce says his staff attorney was notified on Easter Sunday that the motion was had been filed. Boyce says this cause much commotion on Easter Sunday. Boyce notes that “motion,” “continue,” “proceedings” are misspelled. “When I reviewed this, I was angry then and I think I’m angrier now about what you did,” Boyce says.

3:35 p.m. This is an order to show cause hearing. Prior is at the table with Chad Daybell. At the prosecutors table is attorney Terry Ratliff and another attorney named Mr. Bartlett. Bartlett represents Ratliff. Boyce says Ratliff filed his motion to intervene and continue the trial on the Friday before the trial.

3:13 p.m. Prior says in her testimony with the prosecutors, Gibb was very clear in prosecutors and had no memory loss about zombies and dark and light. Gibb says yes. Prior says he has more to go, so Gibb will be back on the stand in the morning. Another hearing will be held in about 15 minutes. This part of the trial is done for today.

3:11 p.m. Gibb tried to get into Lori’s bedroom that night because she and David were alarmed. Gibb went back to sleep and woke up around 7 the following morning. She left the house around 9:30 a.m. Prior asks Gibb if she asked to see JJ before she left. Gibb says it’s possible she asked but doesn’t recalled what she said.

3:10 p.m. After Gibb went to bed, Prior asks if she assumed Lori went to bed and lay down with JJ. Gibb says yes. Gibb doesn’t know where JJ was that night. Prior asks about the nightmare/vision David had. Gibb says it was a “bad experience,” and David was very alarmed and upset by it.

3:09 p.m. During the podcast, Gibb observed Alex carrying JJ with his head on his shoulders. Gibb doesn’t know where Alex put JJ that night. Gibb and David were in JJ’s room. Tylee and JJ’s rooms were close, Lori’s was down the hallway.

3:07 p.m. On Sunday evening, David, Gibb and Lori started recording a podcast around 8-9 p.m. and finished around midnight. Chad was not at the podcast.

3:05 p.m. Gibb recalls going see the property. Chad, a Realtor, Gibb and David were there. Perhaps Alex too. A couple drove by and spoke to the group. Lori was not there. She was at home with her son, Gibb assumes.

3:03 p.m. Prior asks Gibb what Firm Foundation is. She says a few people got together to talk about the Book of Mormon and science. She went to the Firm Foundation conference on Saturday. It was an all=day event. On Sunday, Gibb doesn’t remember anyone going to church. Gibb recalls David and Chad were going to look at some property in the afternoon.

3:01 p.m. Prior says on the recording, Gibb spoke with Lori about the fact she was having a relationship with a married man, and she was a married woman. Gibb says she was referencing a Book of Mormon king who had that type of behavior. Prior asks Gibb if David was still married when they began dating. Blake objects. Boyce sustains.

3 p.m. Gibb says she isn’t 100% clear on how often she saw Chad on the weekend when she was in Rexburg. Gibb recalls seeing Chad either the night she arrived or the next evening.

2:57 p.m. Gibb says it was a difficult moment for her, and that’s what she did. Prior asks if being here today is difficult for Gibb. She says of course it is. Prior says she’s having some struggles because she knows she has information about JJ Vallow and what happened to him. Gibb says to the best of her knowledge, she’s sharing what she knows about it.

2:55 p.m. Prior says Gibb lied to the police about JJ in the beginning when he first went missing. Gibb says, “Sure.” Prior asks how it played out after her initial lie. Gibb says she went to see them personally and told them everything she knew. Prior says the purpose of her going back to the police was to clear up her initial lie. Gibb says no. She felt an obligation was to share with them everything she knew.

2:53 p.m. Prior says when he listens to the tape, Lori’s responses were in the singular. “I had to move her (Tylee).” “I will do whatever the Lord needs me to do.” Prior says Lori’s comments were not “we will” or “they will,” but “I will” in the singular. Gibb says that sounds familiar.

2:52 p.m. Prior asks if before she recorded the call with Lori and Chad, did she contact law enforcement? She says no. Gibb says she has no idea how the conversation was going to flow.

2:51 p.m. Prior asks Gibb is she is relying on what Lori is telling her, and she doesn’t know if what Lori is telling her is the truth. Prior says, “Lori has lied to you before and been untruthful about other things.” Gibb says that’s correct.

2:50 p.m. Prior asks Gibb what portals are. Lori told her it was something she and Chad created by saying a prayer and it was a place they could go to get answers. Prior asks if most of the information was conveyed to her from Lori. Gibb says she didn’t talk to Chad very often and spoke to him around a handful of times.

2:48 p.m. Jurors are back in the courtroom. Prior will continue questioning Gibb. Prior asks Gibb to clarify how light and dark are not within her faith practice. She says not the way Chad and Lori described light and dark. She would not describe someone as light or dark.

2:45 p.m. The jurors are being brought in. This portion of the trial will end at 3:15 p.m. There is another hearing at 3:30 on a motion for another attorney to intervene in the case. You can read more about that here.

2:44 p.m. Prior apparently told a bailiff not to touch his computer. Boyce says the bailiffs are in charge of the courtroom and asks attorneys not to say any editorial comments in front of the jurors. Boyce says the bailiffs have done a fine job in how they have handled the courtroom.

2:41 p.m. Blake says the document published to the jury made reference to grand jury, preliminary hearing and Lori Vallow’s trial. Prosecutors are concerned that Prior showed the item to the jurors. Prior says his notes were unintentionally displayed because he didn’t unplug his HDMI cord.

2:39 p.m. Boyce says the last two defense exhibits were labeled with references that were not appropriate. Boyce says those references need to be removed before they are given to the jury.

2:37 p.m. Boyce says there are some issues that need to be put on the record before jurors come in. He wants to clarify some exhibits that were marked Vallow/Daybell and wants the name “Vallow” redacted in case the jurors think that was in connection to the other case.

2:35 p.m. Break is over, attorneys are in the courtroom and Boyce is on the bench. Blake asks if they can approach. They are huddled in the corner of the courtroom.

2:14 p.m. We are taking a break. Back in 20 minutes.

2:13 p.m. Prior suggests maybe taking an afternoon break. He says he has “a bit to go.” Boyce asks for a sidebar to discuss scheduling.

2:11 p.m. Gibb says at some point, she took JJ to school but doesn’t know exactly when she left or stayed. Prior asks if Gibb had information about Lori’s financial information. Gibb says only what Lori shared with her. Prior asks Gibb if she was aware Lori got life insurance money after Joseph Ryan’s death. Gibb says she is aware.

2:09 p.m. Gibb doesn’t remember how often she was communicating with Lori at this point. Prior asks about an “issue” with Charles, Alex and Lori at the Arizona home. Prior asks about the altercation with a bat and Alex going into his bedroom to get his gun.

2:08 p.m. Prior asks Gibb is she was aware Charles filed divorce proceedings. Gibb is aware. She is also aware that there could have been an attempt at a reconciliation between Charles and Lori.

2:06 p.m. After the end of March 2019, Gibb says Lori went to stay with Alex in Arizona. Prior asks about Lori being in Kauai with Tylee. Prior asks about JJ being with Charles. Gibb says, “I would assume.”

2:05 p.m. Prior asks Gibb if she is suffering with forgetfulness through her testimony today. Gibb says a lot of things they are talking about today she has shared often, so those are things she remembers.

2:04 p.m. Prior asks how often Gibb spoke with Lori in early 2019. Gibb doesn’t remember. Prior asks had she spoken to him earlier than today, she may have been able to recall events easier. Prior asks if Gibb is suffering from forgetfulness today. Gibb says it’s a normal forgetting.

2:03 p.m. Gibb says she didn’t have a relationship with Tylee. Prior says, “You folks didn’t care to be around each other.” Gibb says, “That’s not true.” Prior goes on to say, “Just no relationship.” Gibb says Tylee would not talk with her.

2 p.m. Prior asks Gibb to clarify how often she spoke with Lori. The daily communication stopped as Lori was “moving around.” Prior asks Gibb if Lori moved somewhere in January 2019. She did move from one house to another house in Arizona. Lori then moved to Hawaii around February 2019.

1:59 p.m. Prior apparently just published something on the screen in the courtroom and in front of the jurors. It was very small print and was barely legible. Boyce instructs all the jurors to disregard what was shown.

1:56 p.m. All the attorneys are back and Prior is at the podium. He asks Gibb about where she met Lori. Gibb was teaching a class about health and nutrition. Blake interrupts and asks if they can approach. Sidebar on side of the courtroom again as white noise is played.

1:48 p.m. Prior asks if this was just a coincidence that she was trying to protect the church. Blake objects that the statement is argumentative. Boyce sustains the objection. Prior moves to admit two exhibits. Boyce calls for a sidebar.

1:47 p.m. Prior asks why Gibb sent that to a prosecuting attorney who is prosecuting Chad Daybell. Gibb says she felt comfortable talking to Rob to let him know what she was up to.

1:46 p.m. Prior reads the text Gibb sent to Wood: “Keith, the guy from Dateline, and I want to make sure the church is protected. He has done a good job so far. That’s why I feel comfortable talking with him.”

1:43 p.m. The sidebar is over. The bailiff gives Gibb the message Prior wants her to read to refresh her memory. Prior says in the message that she and Keith Morrison wanted to make sure the church is “protected.” Gibb says it was meant to clarify that these teachings Chad and Lori were engaged in were not consistent with the teachings of the LDS Church.

1:40 p.m. Prior wants to show Gibb a text message on his laptop to help refresh her memory. Blake asks to approach. The attorneys huddle with Boyce in the corner of the courtroom.

1:38 p.m. Prior asks if any time during her communication with Wood she needed to protect a person or organization as part of whether or not she was going to testify. Gibb says her intent was not to protect anything other than to share what she knew.

1:37 p.m. Prior asks Gibb about her text messages between her and Wood. He says, “Would it surprise you to learn that between May 20 and November 4 of 2020 the two of you exchanged text messages over 340 times?” Gibb says it’s possible, but she really doesn’t know.

1:34 p.m. Prior asks about an interview Gibb did with me. Prior says, “That’s right. I forgot about Mr. Eaton.” Prior then asks about Gibb’s interview with Keith Morrison from “Dateline NBC.” Prior asks if there were conditions put in place for the interview. Gibb doesn’t think so.

1:33 p.m. Prior lists the names of the police officers Gibb has spoken to. He mentions Rob Wood and asks how often she spoke with the prosecutor. Gibb says it was frequent for a short period of time.

1:31 p.m. Prior talks about the conference where Lori and Chad first met. Chad was there to sell books. Prior asks about the book Gibb wrote. She says she started to write it in the middle of 2018. The book is called “Feel the Fire.” The book is about her LDS faith.

1:29 p.m. Prior asks if the light and dark teachings are associated with the LDS Church. Gibb says no. She says it’s inconsistent with church.

1:27 p.m. Prior asks Gibb what vibrations are. She says there can be different megahertz, and positive or negative vibrations. She says some people describe spiritual things as vibrations. Gibb says in general, vibrations are a frequency people put off. Prior asks if the frequency gives revelation. Gibb says not for her.

1:25 p.m. Prior asks Gibb to explain what energy work is. Gibb says a practitioner communicates with you or your body with a certain method they use through muscle testing. They ask questions about what’s going on in your body physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and the practitioner uses different ways to help your body feel better.

1:22 p.m. Gibb says before the conference in St. George where Chad met Lori, Chad had said at conferences that his wife Tammy was going to have a short life. Prior asks Gibb if the only two people she knows who have visions are Chad Daybell and David Warwick. Gibb says no – there are others.

1:21 p.m. Prior asks about dreams and visions. Gibb says she doesn’t have those experiences, but her faith believes people can have them. Prior asks if her husband has the gift of having dreams and visions. Gibb says yes. She believed, at one point, that Chad would have dreams and visions.

1:20 p.m. Prior asks Gibb how long she has been married to David Warwick. She says 3.5 years. After they got married, they lived together 9-10 months but now they live in different households by choice. Gibb lives in Arizona, and Warwick lives in Utah.

1:18 p.m. Prior asks if the religious conferences are consistent with the LDS faith. Gibb says mostly. Prior asks about visions and premonitions. He asks Gibb what the difference is. Gibb says a vision is something that feels like it’s actually happening while premonition is a gut feeling.

1:17 p.m. Gibb says she has been to two mountain retreats and she’s been to conferences a handful of times. Gibb says she met her husband at a previous religious conference.

1:15 p.m. Prior tells Gibb he wants to go through a timeline with her. He says he wants to talk about Chad, Lori, Alex, David and Zulema. Prior asks Gibb when she met Chad – summer of 2017. It was at a Preparing a People conference. Prior asks about the conference. Gibb says some people shared about science, some shared about the Book of Mormon, some shared their visions, some shared about ancient scriptures, some shared about stars, etc.

1:13 p.m. Gibb asks Alex if he 100% believed zombies were really true. Alex said he 100% believed it, according to Gibb. Blake has no further questions. Prior will now cross-examine.

1:12 p.m. Blake asks if the teachings of life and dark evolved. Gibb says yes. Dark people were now zombies. Other teachings evolved. Gibb spoke to Lori and Lori mentioned once or twice, “If Chad is Satan, he sure is a good one.” That gave Gibb some indication that Lori had some doubts.

1:10 p.m. Gibb says she heard Tammy referred to as dark at the end of September or early October 2019. Chad labeled people dark. Gibb says Tammy became suspicious about Chad and Lori, according to Lori.

1:08 p.m. Blake continues her questioning of Gibb. She asks about the recording of Chad making comments that Tammy was going to die. Gibb says when Tammy died in Oct. 2019, she reached out to Lori. Gibb says it seemed like Lori already knew of the death. Prior to Tammy’s death, Lori said Tammy was supposed to continue her mission on the other side of the veil and Tammy would be ok with Lori and Chad being together.

1:04 p.m. We are in the courtroom following lunch and Melanie Gibb is back on the stand. The attorneys are at their tables and Judge Boyce just walked in. The jurors will be brought in.

11:58 a.m. Time for a lunch break. We will be back in an hour.

11:57 a.m. Gibb says she says the teachings about getting married multiple times to multiple people “were a little different.” Gibb says she never 100% believed it, and there was some uncertainty there. She was open to come of the ideas but didn’t fully believe them.

11:56 a.m. Gibb says the teachings of Chad and Lori about multiple lives and light and dark felt like a higher knowledge to them. Lori felt Gibb would be in trouble for having knowledge of these things, and she would have to account for it in the next life.

11:55 a.m. Blake mentions that Chad said Tammy was sick and falling apart but he also mentioned that he knew for some time that she was going to die and have two parts of his life. “He had shared that information publicly at a few conferences that she was going to pass away early,” Gibb says.

11:53 a.m. Blake says in the recording that Lori mentioned Kay as being dark. Gibb had briefly met Kay at this point. Blake asks Gibb who the sister-in-law Chad was referring to. It was Heather Daybell and Gibb had never met her before.

11:52 a.m. Blake asks Gibb about Lori referencing that people were after her. Gibb says she was referring to Kay and Lori’s brother and the police all being after her because she considered them dark and they knew who she was spiritually. Their goal was to take JJ, and her life may have been in danger.

11:51 a.m. Gibb says the call disconnected – sometimes it ends in that particular area Gibb was in. Blake asks Gibb if she knew where Chad and Lori were during the call. Gibb doesn’t know. Blake asks if Chad and Lori seemed upset. Gibb says no. They were in good moods.

11:50 a.m. Lori says Gibb feels guilty about being with someone before she is divorced. Gibb says, “Honey, that’s not what we are talking about here.” Lori says Jesus Christ is protecting her and will protect her against the accusations Gibb has made against her. Lori hangs up.

11:49 a.m. Gibb says Lori’s behavior is not one of someone who believes in Christ. Lori says Gibb sounds “pissed off,” Gibb responds, “I am troubled. These things – like you being with Chad before he’s even divorced.” Lori says, “I was never with him, and he was never divorced.” Gibb says, “Honey, I’ve seen you guys together.”

11:47 a.m. Gibb tells Lori her salvation is in trouble with the Lord. Lori says she needs to check with the Lord again because her salvation is not in trouble. Lori says, “I’m sorry you are friends with all these people who are against me.” Gibb says she isn’t friends with any of them – she doesn’t know Kay, and she doesn’t know Chad’s sister-in-law.

11:45 a.m. Gibb and Lori are arguing about scriptures, and Gibb tells Lori she has opened dark portals and “dark junk.” Lori says the Lord has her back. Gibb says she’s trying to find JJ and she’s asking where JJ is. Lori says she can say where JJ is, but that would not be best for JJ. Lori says she would never ask Gibb not to protect her children.

11:44 a.m. Lori tells Gibb she will be accountable for the knowledge she has. Gibb says, “So will you.” Gibb says she was reading the story of Korihor and his carnal and natural desires. Lori says, “You think I’m Korihor? Are you kidding me right now?” Gibb says both Chad and Lori had similarities to Korihor. Lori says she lives by the scriptures and Gibb says she feels Lori has “rested” the scriptures. Lori is upset Gibb would say this. (Korihor is an anti-Christ in the Book of Mormon.)

11:42 a.m. Chad says he’s known for years that Tammy would die at a young age and his life will have two segments. Chad says Tammy is on a special mission and she has visited his kids. He tells Gibb she has to have faith in the master plan. Gibb says, “You can understand my concern, correct?” Chad says from an outsider’s perspective, he can, but David (her boyfriend) seems to be putting doubts in her mind.

11:42 a.m. Lori says Christ is coming soon, and Gibb will know that Lori has not been deceived. Chad now comes onto the call and says his sister-in-law (Heather Daybell) has been deceived and coming up with theories. Chad says his own children said Tammy had been getting weaker and sick, her heart was failing her and she was physically falling apart.

11:41 a.m. Gibb says Tammy died, Charles died. Gibb says she has never had peace about all this, and she has felt weird in her stomach. Lori responds, “You know me, Mel. This sounds like you have been influenced by somebody dark who wants you to believe dark things and have fear of the celestial world.”

11:40 a.m. Lori tells Gibb she did what the Lord told her to do, and Gibb can have this confirmed to her from the Lord. Gibb tells Lori she has been very deceived by Satan, and Satan has tricked her.

11:38 a.m. Lori tells Gibb darkness is knocking on the door all the time and says, “I promise you I have done nothing wrong in this case, but sometimes you have to hide in the cavity of a rock.” Lori says Kay is dark because she changed the life insurance policy with Charles. Lori says she doesn’t know why Gibb is being “controversial” with her and says she loves Gibb. Gibb says, “If you really loved me, you would not have told the police I had JJ with me.”

11:37 a.m. On the call, Lori mentions Alma and Moroni, Book of Mormon prophets. Lori says they had to “hide in the cavity of a rock by day and go out by night.” Gibb reads a scripture to Lori about not fearing men more than God and being faithful. Gibb says if the door is open to Satan, he comes in and attacks. “God doesn’t work in darkness,” Gibb says. Lori responds, “I agree 100%, and that is what the Lord is doing with me.”

11:35 a.m. Lori says the police are working with Kay in “some dark capacity” and there is no reason for them to be after her. Lori says Kay has threatened her. Gibb says she’s worried for Chad and Lori because JJ is missing. Lori says, “I know exactly where he is. He’s safe.” Gibb wants to share a scripture with Lori.

11:33 a.m. Gibb says she asked Alex Cox where JJ was. He said he was somewhere and could not be found. Lori says she doesn’t want anyone to know where JJ is so nobody has to be questioned about it. Gibb asks Lori how long she will be away. Lori says she will do whatever the Lord needs her to do every day.

11:31 a.m. Gibb asks Lori why she told the police JJ was with her. “I just needed to have somebody so I wouldn’t have to tell him where he really was because they were going to tell Kay.” Gibb asks if JJ is safe. Lori responds, “He is safe and happy.” Gibb asks how it could hurt her if she knew where JJ is. Lori responds, “I’m just not telling anybody so that nobody has to say where he is or get questioned where he is so I can keep him as safe as possible.”

11:28 a.m. Blake is now playing the call. Chad answers, “Hello, sweet Melanie.” Gibb asks Chad and Lori where they are. Chad giggles and says, “We’re just hanging out.” They don’t say where they are. Gibb asks Lori what happened with JJ and why isn’t he at Kay’s house. Lori doesn’t answer the question but says people are after her. Chad says, “If you knew where JJ was, that puts you in danger.” Chad and Lori won’t say where JJ is because Lori wants to keep him and everyone else protected.

11:23 a.m. Gibb called Chad and Lori on Dec. 8, 2019. She recorded the call. Blake moves to admit the call. You can listen here:

11:20 a.m. Gibb told police JJ had never been with her. After Thanksgiving, Gibb and David called Chad and Lori. They asked where JJ was. Chad and Lori would not tell her. Gibb spoke with Alex a day or two after Thanksgiving and told him her concerns about JJ. Gibb and Alex were walking with Melani Pawlowski (Lori’s niece) in a field. Gibb asked Alex, “Do I want to know here JJ is?” Alex said no and proceeded to tell her about the police coming to his apartment.

11:18 a.m. Gibb says the day she was going to talk with the police, she got a call from an old friend who is an attorney. Gibb says she told her friend about the situation and the attorney suggested a welfare check be done. The attorney reached out to police and requested a welfare check. Gibb was concerned about the welling of JJ and Tylee. Gibb sat down with law enforcement and says, “I told them everything,” without an attorney present.

11:17 a.m. Gibb says Alex told her law enforcement were considered dark translated beings. Gibb says Chad determined who was dark. Gibb did not initially answer the call from the police. She says she didn’t know what to do. She ended up calling Gilbert, Arizona, Police. She said she had JJ but no longer had him and he was back with Lori.

11:15 a.m. Gibb said to Chad, “JJ isn’t with Kay?” Chad said no. He told her Lori would be calling her but she was talking to the police. Lori later called Gibb and was very positive and upbeat. She said she was protecting JJ and Tylee because Kay and others were trying to kidnap him. Gibb says Lori told her to go to a “Frozen” movie and take pictures of other kids to make it look like Gibb had him.

11:14 a.m. In Nov. 2019, two or three days before Thanksgiving, Chad called Gibb when she was in Utah. Chad told Gibb the Rexburg police were going to call her and ask about JJ. He asked her not to pick up the phone. He said Lori told the police Gibb had JJ. Gibb says Chad sounded nervous on the phone.

11:13 a.m. The morning after Gibb last saw JJ, Lori said JJ was with Alex. Lori later told Gibb that she met up with Kay in the Salt Lake City airport, and Kay took JJ.

11:11 a.m. Gibb says Lori told her she was going to meet Kay in an airport and give JJ to him. Lori was throwing out different ideas of how she could convince Kay to take JJ. Lori told Gibb she contacted Kay, and Lori said she gave JJ to Kay. Kay and Larry Woodcock are in the courtroom this morning.

11:10 a.m. Blake asks Gibb if she knows if Lori ever received life insurance following Charles Vallow’s death. Gibb doesn’t think so. Gibb says Lori never told her about having a job in Idaho. Lori shared with Gibb that JJ was acting out more and was acting like he was possessed the weekend Gibb visited. Lori seemed troubled that JJ had been taken over by an evil spirit. Lori told Gibb she wanted Kay Woodcock, JJ’s grandmother, to take JJ.

11:09 a.m. Gibb never saw JJ again.

11:07 a.m. That night, David woke up with a panic after having a nightmare. Gibb says he was very disturbed by the dream. Gibb called out to get help from Lori and/or Chad to ask for a priesthood blessing. Gibb texted or called Chad but he didn’t respond. Gibb says this was in the early morning hours. Gibb texted and called Lori. She didn’t answer. Gibb went to Lori’s room but it was locked.

11:06 a.m. Lori said Sept. 22 was a special day for her – it was the anniversary of when she saw Moroni in the temple. Gibb recalls recording a podcast on Sept. 22 with Lori and David. Alex walked in the door holding JJ on the shoulder. Alex was taking JJ to bed. JJ often slept in the corner of his mom’s room in a little bed. He also had his own bedroom. JJ did not sleep in his bedroom that night because she was in JJ’s room.

11:05 a.m. During the walk around the BYU-Idaho track, Chad and Lori were very affectionate and loving toward each other. Gibb asked if they were concerned Tammy might see them together. Lori said Tammy was not aware of his personal life like that – where he went. There was no indication of divorce or separation.

11:03 a.m. Gibb observed affection and loving with Chad and Lori. She kissed him on the cheek. They sang together and danced a little. Gibb recalls walking around the BYU-Idaho campus, and Chad and Lori were holding hands. Prior has objected a few times but his microphone is off so it’s hard to hear.

11:01 a.m. Tammy was still alive at this time. Gibb heard Chad talk a little about Tammy. David asked Chad about Tammy that weekend. Chad asked David not to tell anyone about his relationship with Lori. Chad said Tammy was a good wife, according to Gibb. Gibb never heard Chad say anything about getting a divorce.

10:59 a.m. Gibb says she arrived on Wednesday. The next day, JJ was upset, and Chad took him upstairs. After some time, Chad came back downstairs holding his hand. Chad had a red scratch on his neck. Gibb asked what happened and Chad said JJ had scratched him. Gibb had not seen interactions between Chad and JJ before that time.

10:58 a.m. Lori spoke to Gibb about JJ. Lori said the day before Gibb arrived, JJ became dark. Lori had previously told Gibb that Tylee was dark. Gibb didn’t observe any behaviors from JJ that caused her concern. Several of the jurors are taking notes.

10:57 a.m. Gibb never saw Tylee in Idaho. She asked Lori where Tylee was, and Lori says her daughter was at BYU-Idaho with her roommates. Lori didn’t talk about Tylee again. Gibb stayed in Tylee’s room, but there was nothing in there. Just furniture.

10:56 a.m. Gibb visited Lori the weekend of Sept. 22, 2019. There was a conference in Rexburg, and Gibb was going to record a podcast with Lori. They had recorded podcasts with each other before. Gibb flew to Idaho and stayed at her house. When they arrived at the home, Alex and JJ were there. Occasionally Chad would come over. David Warwick, her boyfriend at the time, was also there. Warwick and Gibb are now married.

10:54 a.m. Lori was in Hawaii and not at the conference. After Lori moved to Idaho, Gibb spoke to Lori on the phone right after they moved in. Lori was in her apartment playing games with Alex and Tylee. Gibb heard Tylee in the background.

10:52 a.m. Lori told Gibb she needed to go to Idaho to be with Chad. At some point, Lori told Gibb that Tylee was dark. Blake asks who gave Lori that information. “I’m guessing it was Chad,” Gibb says. Gibb says she once saw Chad with a pendulum to get his answers – it was gold and had a string. It was in February 2019 in Boise. Gibb was here for a conference. Chad, Zulema, Sarina and Audrey and other people were at the conference.

10:50 a.m. When Lori was Elaina, Chad was James – one of the apostles of Jesus – in a previous life. Lori learned this information from Chad, Gibb says. Gibb says Chad would sit in his portal and ask questions to get his information. Gibb saw Lori’s portal. “It was nothing but a spot in her closet. It didn’t look like anything. It looked like a regular space,” Gibb says. Gibb says Chad told her and taught her about the portal.

10:48 a.m. Lori contacted Chad daily, according to Gibb. Blake asks about names Chad had in prior lives. Gibb doesn’t remembers names but remembers that Lori was married to Moroni, James and she was Chad’s wife but he was James and she was Elaina. Chad was considered to be Methuselah and she was his daughter. Another time she was a lady who was married to a relative of Joseph Smith.

10:46 a.m. Gibb spoke with Lori about why Chad didn’t get a divorce. Chad told Lori that if he got a divorce, he would lose his exaltation. Charles started divorce proceedings, according to Blake. Lori says she saw Lori with three phones – one was her personal phone, the other phone was just for Chad and Gibb is unsure about the third phone.

10:45 a.m. Lori told Gibb that every time she got together with Chad, she would ask Jesus what was acceptable and appropriate about what activities to do with Chad. If she felt it was OK, she would meet up with Chad at hotels.

10:43 a.m. Blake continues with her questioning of Gibb. Before Charles’ death, Gibb says she had conversations with Lori about her relationship with Chad. Gibb says Lori told her they really loved each other, and they had missions together and multiple lives. There was physical affection and contact.

10:41 a.m. Chad and Prior are both staring at Gibb. Gibb has her back toward them from the stand and is looking at the empty juror seats.

10:40 a.m. The attorneys have walked into the courtroom. Judge takes the bench and asks for jurors to be brought back in.

10:34 a.m. Gibb is sitting on the stand. Chad is sitting at the defense table staring down.

10:30 a.m. We are back in the courtroom. All of the attorneys have been summoned to Judge Boyce’s chambers.

10:10 a.m. Interesting development during this break. Those of us in the gallery were held back and reminded to follow courtroom conduct rules because a phone alarm went off this morning. As Melanie Gibb was in the hallway for the break, a lady waiting in line to get inside tells me a man ran after Gibb to serve her with papers. Gibb refused to take it and John Prior came out of the courtroom saying, ‘Where is he? Where is he?’ Prior then told Gibb she has to take the papers. The prosecutors came out and said she can’t be served a subpoena while on the stand. It appears Prior wants Gibb as a defense witness too.

9:58 a.m. We are now headed to our morning break. Be back in 30 minutes.

9:57 a.m. Chad and Lori were super excited to be together. They were talking to several people at the kitchen table and were excited to share their future plans together. There were no signs of grief from Chad. Tammy was still alive. In the courtroom, Chad leans over to Prior and whispers something in his ear.

9:55 a.m. Gibb spoke with Lori about four days after Charles was killed. Gibb says there was no sign of sadness or grief. Lori seemed happy. When Gibb spoke with Alex, she says he seemed thoughtful and unsure of himself. Gibb saw Chad a few weeks after Charles died. Chad was in Arizona at Lori’s house.

9:54 a.m. After Charles was killed, Gibb says Lori told her Charles came in from Texas, and she grabbed his cell phone. He was really upset, and Tylee grabbed a bat to protect her mom or herself. Alex went into his room to get a gun to defend himself and then shot Charles, Gibb recalls.

9:53 a.m. Lori told Gibb that Alex was going to protect her. Blake asks if there was anything unusual about Lori and Alex’s relationship. She says they were very close but nothing unusual. Gibb says Alex was designated as Lori’s protector. “His mission in life was to protect Lori – that’s why he came here.” She says Chad told Lori this about Alex.

9:52 a.m. Gibb started to believe that Charles might be possessed. She had met him a few times but did not know him well. Most of what she knew about Charles came from Lori. In July 2019, Gibb stayed and Lori’s house but Lori asked her to leave. “I woke up early in the morning and told me I needed to leave because Charles was driving in from Texas and was going to kill her,” Gibb says.

9:51 a.m. The casting Chad attended happened in Arizona, Gibb says. Chad shakes his head no (in the courtroom) and writes notes down on a pad in front of him.

9:50 a.m. The castings started in Jan./Feb 2019 until before Charles died. If the casting was successful, the body would naturally expire, according to Gibb. Blake asks if she was ever told violence would be done to the body. “Never,” Gibb says. Gibb says others were involved in the castings more than her – people like Lori and Zulema. They knew the most about it, Gibb says.

9:49 a.m. Gibb had met Brandon and Brandon was designated as dark, according to Lori who learned it from Chad. Blake asks if castings were ever done on Tammy. Gibb says yes. Blake asks if castings were done on JJ and Tylee. Gibb does not recall.

9:47 a.m. Gibb says there were additional castings in relation to Charles. Gibb participated. They tried to cast the next evil spirit out of Charles and it worked, according to Lori. Lori said she received this information from Chad. Nothing happened to Charles and then another entity came into his body. Lori learned about this from Chad, Gibb says. Chad was present for some of the castings, Gibb says. Another casting was done on Brandon Boudreaux. Chad was present and so was Gibb. Chad shakes his head no.

9:45 a.m. Blake asks about castings and if Gibb was ever there for a casting. She was. She describes the ladies would stand in a circle. Some would say a prayer, and some would send spiritual weapons. The people who were having the spirits cast of out them were not physically there. Gibb says when they did the casting for Charles, Ned left but another entity incorporated his body, according to Chad.

9:43 a.m. Lori would try to cast the evil spirit out of the body and “try to convince it to leave.” Gibb says Lori got the idea for casting from energy work. Gibb says Charles was designated a different name – Ned Schneider. Chad told Lori that the name was changed. Lori told Gibb about a dream she had when Charles was out of town. Lori says Charles and JJ were not going to come back – they were in a car crash, and Charles was killed in the crash. Charles never died in a crash. After this dream, Lori told Gibb Charles turned dark.

9:42 a.m. Lori began telling Gibb about light and dark people in January 2019. The first person who turned dark was Charles. Lori got this information from Chad, according to Gibb. Lori originally told Gibb when a person became dark, their spirit would go into the spirit world, but the body was still alive with a dark spirit.

9:40 a.m. Gibb says she had heard of these concepts before, but not in the way Chad was teaching them. Gibb was open to learning more about these things. Chad and Lori spoke to Gibb about people switching from light to dark or dark to light. She says some evil entity could enter a person, and a light person could become dark. Lori said she got this information from Chad.

9:39 a.m. Lori told other people about light and dark and multiple probations – Zulema, Melanie, Alex Cox and others. Blake asks Gibb if she knows if Chad ever shared teachings and beliefs with those people. Gibb says yes. She was present when he did. Chad is taking notes in the courtroom during Gibb’s testimony.

9:37 a.m. Lori felt her mission was to gather women for the 144,000, according to Gibb. The 144,000 is a Biblical explanation for people who would go out and gather Israel in the last day and have the power to do that, Gibb says. Blake asks where Lori got the belief. Gibb says she got it for herself but Lori shared with Chad who she believed she was. Chad agreed and told her that’s what her mission was.

9:36 a.m. In regards to multiple probations, Lori said people lived multiple lives and she would try to figure out when. Lori would ask Chad how many times people had been on the planet or other planets. Lori would then share with Gibb what Chad told her. Blake asks if people were designated with a number and then an “L” or “D” for light or dark. The numbers and letters originated from Chad, Gibb says.

9:34 a.m. Gibb says Lori would often call Chad and Chad would give her information about multiple probations. Lori would then come back and share what she learned with Gibb and another friend. Gibb says Lori shared about “light” and “dark” from Chad. Gibb says if someone was light, they made contracts with Jesus Christ before they came here. If they were dark, they made contracts with Satan. There was a scale level about how light and dark people were.

9:33 a.m. Chad stayed at Lori’s house during the conference. Alex may have stayed at the home, but there were no other men there.

9:32 a.m. Charles was out of town. Gibb had read Chad’s books, and Lori had read them too. Lori was interested in his books.

9:31 a.m. Lori and Chad talked often with each other at the get-together and they seemed interested at each other. Lori told Gibb that Lori and Chad had been married to each other in previous probations. Lori told Gibb they were going to be resealed in the temple to each other like they had been in previous lives together. Lori told Gibb they had gone to the temple. Charles and Tammy were both still alive.

9:30 a.m. After the conference in October, Gibb saw Chad again the next month at a conference in Arizona. Tammy was not there. Lori was. Outside of the conference, Gibb saw Chad at Lori’s house in Arizona. Blake asks about the gathering. Gibb says a small group of people met before the conference – about 20 – and Lori and her friends were there.

9:29 a.m. Gibb had contact with Lori almost daily. After January 2019, Lori started to move multiple times, so it was hard for Gibb to keep in touch with her. They still spoke on the phone.

9:28 a.m. Gibb met Tylee and JJ in Lori’s house. She says Lori and Tylee had a difficult relationship and didn’t get along very well. Gibb says Lori had a lot of affection for JJ, but he was autistic and he seemed “very busy for her” (meaning Lori).

9:27 a.m. Blake asks what was discussed during the drive back to Arizona. Gibb says Lori and Chad discussed multiple lives, the fact Lori was married to Moroni in a previous life, multiple probations and more. Gibb says before Lori met Chad, she talked to her about multiple lives. Lori told Gibb that Chad gave her additional information at the conference – that they had been married in previous probations. Lori was receptive of the information.

9:26 a.m. Gibb says Lori and Chad were very interested in each other. Lori was married to Charles at the time and Chad was married to Tammy. Gibb had met Charles but never met Tammy. After the conference, Gibb traveled back to Arizona with Lori.

9:25 a.m. I interviewed Melanie Gibb in May 2020. You can watch that here:

9:23 a.m. Chad was selling his books at the conference. Gibb observed Lori and Chad meeting. Gibb walked into the building with Lori and can’t remember if she introduced Lori to Chad or Lori introduced herself. During testimony in the courtroom, Chad glances back and forth from the prosecutor to Gibb.

9:22 a.m. Lori approached Gibb and they started a friendship. A few weeks after they met, they went to St. George, Utah, for a religious conference. Around 5-6 people all traveled to the conference in the same vehicle.

9:21 a.m. Lindsey Blake is questioning Gibb. She asks Gibb when she met Chad Daybell. She says they met a get-together on 2017. They spoke but did not keep in touch. Blake asks Gibb where she met Lori. It was in a church building in Oct. 2018.

9:20 a.m. The next witness called by the state is Melanie Gibb.

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9:19 a.m. Prior has two follow-up clarifying questions. Douglass is released from the stand and will not be recalled.

9:18 a.m. Wood asks about the burner phones and Prior asking if they would be a good way to have an affair. Wood follows up by saying, “Would that be a good way to hide a crime?” Douglass says yes. “If someone was having an affair and the mistress’s husband dies … and then your wife dies … and you get married 10 days later, and there are two dead kids found on your property, would that be a reason to buy a burner phone?” Wood asks. Douglass says yes.

9:15 a.m. Wood asks about the text message between Lori and Chad concerning the $4,000 in Social Security. “Mr. Daybell was aware Lori was receiving at least $4,000,” Wood asks. Douglass responds that Chad was.

9:14 a.m. Prior has no further questions for Douglass. Wood has brief re-direct. He asks Douglass if he has seen pictures of Chad and Lori’s wedding. He says yes. Wood asks what kind of rings they are wearing. Douglass says malachite rings.

9:12 a.m. Prior asks about the malachite rings and the fact the order was canceled. Prior asks Douglass if he looked into the size of the wedding rings. The invoice said 8mm – Douglass says that is the width, not the size. Prior asks if Douglass is aware that Alex Cox proposed marriage to Zulema Pastenes. Douglass says he knows they got married but doesn’t know when the marriage took place.

9:10 a.m. Prior asks Douglass if he knows who increased the life insurance. He says he wasn’t there.

9:07 a.m. Prior asks about Tammy’s life insurance policies and says one of them was put in place years ago. Douglass says that wouldn’t surprise him. Douglass says Tammy had $300,000 in life insurance before she started working at the school. Then she started at the school, and after a year, she increased her policy.

9:06 a.m. Prior asks Douglass if he knew JJ was with his father while Lori was in Hawaii and mentions that Lori was receiving Social Security money. Douglass says JJ was not getting money at that time – only Tylee was due to the death of her father.

9:04 a.m. Prior asks Douglass if he is aware Lori temporary relocated to Hawaii around Feb. 1, 2019. Douglass says there are transactions that support she was coming and going from Arizona to Hawaii. Prior asks if she was coming and going or if she had relocated. Douglass says he could not prove she relocated.

9:02 a.m. Prior asks Douglass about the south/southwest wind noted on one of his exhibits and says he finds it a little unusual to include that on a financial timeline. “The fact he checked the wind isn’t relevant to Tylee’s financials,” Prior says. Douglass says it is not relevant to the finances. Prior asks why Douglass didn’t mention the fact Chad sent a text to his wife that he was burning limbs the following morning. Douglass says it’s because he didn’t discover that.

9 a.m. Prior confirms other details with Douglass from the timeline. He asks if there are any financial links between Chad and Lori leading up to Tylee’s death. Douglass says there are no accounts linking them together.

8:58 a.m. Prior shows an exhibit displaying JJ’s financial timeline. He asks Douglass if Chad and Lori ever talked financial matters before she texted Chad about not getting the insurance money following Charles Vallow’s death. Douglass says he does have any indication of that.

8:55 a.m. Boyce reminds Prior and the witness not to talk over each other. Prior then talks over the judge and Boyce says, “Mr. Prior – you just talked right over me. Please do not do that.” Prior apologizes. He asks to display an exhibit.

8:53 a.m. Prior reviews other events. He says, “Chad Daybell has nothing to do with the transactions. You’re not trying to imply in this particular exhibit that Chad Daybell had anything to do with Charles Vallow’s death, are you?” Douglass says he built the timeline to show funding sources for Tylee.

8:52 a.m. Chad and Lori met on Oct. 26, 2018 – two days before Lori got the life insurance payment. Prior asks if Lori was anticipating the life insurance check before she met Chad. Douglass says Lori knew about the payment before she met Chad.

8:50 a.m. Prior moves along the timeline to other events in 2018. He asks if Chad knew JJ, Tylee or Lori at this time. Douglass says no. Prior points out Lori receiving a life insurance policy from Joe Ryan on Oct. 28, 2018 of over $64,000.

8:49 a.m. Prior pulls up the exhibit showing Tylee’s financial timeline. It starts with April 3, 2018 – the date of Joe Ryan’s death. Prior asks if Chad knew Lori or Tylee at this time. Douglass says there is no indication that they knew each other.

8:48 a.m. Prior asks if Lori and Chad ever co-mingled their money. Douglass says there is no indication of that.

8:47 a.m. Prior asks Douglass if you are having an affair with another woman, buying one of these phones would be an ideal way to hide it from your spouse. Douglass responds, “If you say so.” Prior says, “I didn’t say so. I’m asking you.” Douglass says sure.

8:45 a.m. Prior asks Douglass why he showed an exhibit showing Chad bought a phone from Walmart. Douglass says he found it substantial because of the continued pattern of the purchase of cell phones. Prior asks Douglass what type of phone was purchased. Douglass can’t recall but says it’s in his report. Prior asks if it was a disposable phone. Douglass says, “Sure,” and says the purchase was inexpensive.

8:42 a.m. The next exhibit is an Etsy record showing a glow-in-the-dark malachite ring was shipped to Lori Vallow, but the purchase was refunded to Lori. Douglass is unclear why. Wood has no further questions. Prior will now cross-examine.

8:40 a.m. Tylee was killed on Sept. 10. There were 29 payments after Sept. 10 to Colby Ryan, totaling over $5,000.

8:39 a.m. Tylee Venmod Colby four times during this seven month period for a total of $170, Douglass says. On Sept. 10, 2019, the funding source changed on the account, but Venmo activity continued.

8:37 a.m. Wood shows the exhibit on the screen. Douglass says the only funding source for Tylee’s Venmo account was her JP Morgan Chase account until Sept. 2019. From Jan. 7 to Aug. 7, her primary Venmo activity was to Colby Ryan, her older brother, and Kelsee Benson, his girlfriend. Tylee also sent money on Venmo one time to two of her friends.

8:34 a.m. Wood is questioning Douglass. Douglass explains he reviewed Venmo records in relation to Tylee and Lori. Wood asks to admit a timeline of Venmo activity showing Tylee’s account and two accounts belonging to Lori.

8:30 a.m. FBI Forensic Accountant Michael Douglass will be back on the stand this morning. Judge Boyce is on the bench and jurors are being brought in.

8:27 a.m. We are back in the courtroom this morning. Chad Daybell is wearing a checked dress shirt with a golden yellow tie. He is sitting next to John Prior. Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake, Madison County Prosecuting Attorney Rob Wood, Fremont County Deputy Prosecutor Rocky Wixom and Special Prosecutor Ingrid Batey are at the prosecution table.